There is no Spoon
"your mind makes it real" ~ morpheusso this is my 200th post here at P3T3RK3Y5 (the second anniversary of achieving three digits in the arbitrary base 10 numbering system) and its going to be a lot of doodles i've been brewing on for a long time, all linked together, that simply must get out - so that i can move on... to a bunch of other stuff i've been brewing on.... :-) so here goes!
while moderating a group discussion in one of our sunday morning community gatherings a couple years ago - i was presented with an off the wall comment from a gentlemen who walked in and had only been listening briefly. now I should preface this by saying, i had a number of my lay-physics books with me - but i recall his comment as really coming from out of left field. the best I could come up with to validate his idea was to mention that there are, in fact, physicists who think that the reality we know - is really a hologram (like i said, out of left field). at this point he muttered something about us being literal six day evangelical creationists and walked out. which was unfortunate - because i really was willing to engage him. anyway, since that time - scientists have actually devised a pretty cool little test to decide if this could be the case.
the thinking goes like this:
* (credit cards) holograms are etched on 2D plastic films - and create the appearance of a 3D image.
* our 4D reality could be projected from a 5D pringle shape - the physics are the same.
* a planck length is reality's analogue to a computer screen pixel.
* the grains of information that exist in the hologram (assuming were living in one) would be bigger than a pixel (Planck length). i.e. they would be blurry.
the idea is not unlike watching a DVD (at 720 x 480) at full screen on your computer (typically 1280 x 1024). there is only so much information available from the source material - information is not created just because youre watching it full screen. so what happens is 1 pixel of information is spread across maybe four pixels. if we can detect this blurriness - one good cause for it might be this hologram idea. incidentally ladies - this is why all the guys out there know the *right* answer is to have high-definition source material ;-)
so anyway, if you're willing to engage with the mind-job that we are (living) (in) a hologram - i think it becomes easier to embrace the significance of the role of the observer in this suggested ephemeral existence. and also - to accept the importance of the observer - and the role that consciousness plays in this suggested reality - and really, should play in our theology, and in our understanding of truth. personally, i think that ignoring the significance of consciousness, happens at our own very significant loss.
for example - when a friend looses someone - the significance of that to me is related to the 'significance of that death to the observers consciousness'. so if they don't care - i probably won't care much. however if they are devastated - i may be as well. another example, pain - is so significant to a persons consciousness - and life - it can't be overstated. the problem of pain is such a compelling one too btw. i would also argue that if someone is going insane - the significance of that (loss) is also related to / can be measured in terms of consciousness. another example, listening to a friend while they unload - is so significant - simply by the act of those thoughts being observed by the listener - another conciseness. compare that with words spoken into the air. turns out a tree falling in an empty forest really does make no sound.
recognize that these things have almost no physical bearing on the outside world. but they are precisely why solitary confinement - or even a blindfold are so significant to the consciousness - because our reality - our existence - becomes meaningful only when we observe and are observed. and there are a million other examples exactly along these lines - which you can become aware of by your new found awareness of this in your daily comings and goings.
and *consciousness* - is precisely where, i wish, christianity could begin to engage with a variety of the moral issues out there. traditionally - we have a christianity whose leaders are not well educated (not very "genetically diversified" as I've come to start saying), who already knows the answers to problems - so they think, who thinks that the world / america is out to get them, who asks people to accept by faith but on a given arbitrary form of christianity's terms, and is not willing to engage at the level of dialogue that is out there. partly, i think, because christianity has become so short sighted in its potential roles in the dialogue and future that is humanity's (going no further than gay marriage, abortion, and evolution. and viewing the world in terms of blacks and whites, and false dichotomy's).
actually - this shortsightedness manifests in all the abrahamic faiths. remember ahmadinejad saying "there are no homosexuals in iran". yeah dude - just like there are no homosexuals in the republican party - or the pulpit. this is, i think, quite honestly a little revealing: because it leads one to realize this short sighted kind of thinking is independent of ones faith, be it islam, christianity, judaism.
let me say it again, you're not being uniquely christian by opposing: gay marriage, abortion, or evolution. so if you're not being uniquely christian - you're being something else. what is that?
for me? the number one word i think of, when i think of this camp, is "fear". be those phobias. or the "certain" collapse of morality or society.
personally, i associate fear with cowardice. i think you're cowardly if you succumb to fear, and you're probably a bigger coward if you use fear.
which is also why i believe cheney and bush were such colossal failures as leaders because they led the country into being fearful (whatever happened to "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself?)!! and also because they used fear to manipulate the masses.
and also, why fear-imbalanced fox news, who i actually don't necessarily believe to be led by a partisan - are so ... well, partisan. because their coverage, both on the internet and television, consists of peddling sensationalistic crap to those who would believe the sky is falling. but the motivation is simple: sensationalist stories sell, and the point is to make money.
so here are some bigger questions for consideration:
- have you seen people setting tickle me elmo dolls on fire on youtube? why would you do that? turns out to kinda be disturbing. how is that different than cruelty to animals? when will it be not different? is it not different to the observers consciousness - or what it teaches a child - or what it could lead to. (actually while were here - why is cruelty to animals a problem in the first place? how do you argue that?) but then, what happens as elmo dolls get smarter - and start to sense they are "uncomfortable" and maybe start to call out - or even scream. why is that significant. why does it become significant. when does it become significant.
- mores law says computers get twice as smart every 18 months - and thats not stopping any time soon. so maybe twice as smart as zero (my computers current smartness) will be zero for a long time. but what happens if we can sample a brain or build neural nets. what happens when your loved ones brain can be sampled at their death and they can live - on in in the internets, or your iPhone. or get downloaded to a synthetic body. what is that really? is this extending life or doing something else? what if that personality / program claims to be aware - and claims to be your loved one - and even acts like them. and finally, would you do this if you could? i would.
- what happens as we create synthetic life - synthetic life that is smart? or bring back neanderthal? what kinds of rights should they have in our society? how would you decide that? what is the morality of hybrid humans? and what does it mean we we realize a parrot can have the IQ of a six year old. how should we respond to Dolphins intelligence. or Elephants. if smart is sexy - are these species going to get smarter?
i'm not suggesting consciousness is the only perspective from which to dialogue - i'd love to see others. i happen to think its an exemplary one that shouldn't be underestimated. and i think its remarkable that we still don't know what it is, any more than we know what time is. but we need to have a better conversation.
btw - what do you suppose happens when the hologram blips out - or we blip out of the hologram. think we might begin to see reality as it really is? and no longer through a glass darkly? sounds like fun!


6 Comments:
Congrats yourself on the 200th post!
Not sure I understand all the hologram stuff but I love what you say here about morality based on fear. That is a huge theme for me at the moment. I'm still struggling with where that leaves us morally... Or where that leaves me morally.I'll be quoting a paragraph from this post over on my blog within the next couple of days if that's okay.
I feel you are far more courageous than I!
I discovered yur post from Cori's blog, but my response is opposite to hers. I like the stuff about consciousness (and have blogged about it here: Notes from underground: Consciousness of absurdity and the absurdity of consciousness) but I'm puzzled about the morality and fear bit. Are you saying that fear is the only immoral thing, and that we should be fearlessly amoral (or immoral)?
And why evolution? What does it have to do with morality? Is there a commandment "Thou shalt not evolve"? And the other things, abortion etc? Is all morality based on fear? Opposing racism, for example, or opposing bombing schools? Or torturing cute furry animals? Is opposition to those things based on fear too?
Hey Steve - thanks for dropping in and commenting - (and giving me a chance to clarify). i thoroughly enjoyed your post, particularly the Chesterton quote: "The mere man on two legs, as such, should be felt as something more heartbreaking than any music and more startling than any caricature". remarkable. fits with so much of what einstein has to say too - imo.
so my question can go to your assertion "The basis of Christian morality is the idea that persons exist and have value".... why is that? the classic christian answer is "because God made us". but my point is - this is answer comes from a theist point of view. how do we have a conversation then with a non-theist who doesn't agree with our assumption? are we at an impasse?
so my point is: christians are mostly not right when they say "if we don't agree that the bible is the authority - we have no basis to argue". my point is - christians do a disservice to their faith when they take this lazy shortcut out. and they add nothing intellectual to the argument. e.g. you and i can quickly get to a point of agreement, if we start from, say, the point of consciousness.
the christian argument then, rewritten in terms of consciousness, looks like this: "The basis of morality is based on the idea that where consciousness exists, there is intrinsic value".
would you agree to this?
my second point was that christians are not arguing well about morality - nor arguing about the really relevant moral issues. the arguments being offered are not intellectual, not fully rational, largely motivated by fear, and require an arbitrary acceptance of a twentieth century western christian viewpoint (vice, e.g. jesus who didn't speak about any of these issues).
so they speak to abortion because they are afraid of the slippery slope to euthanasia. they speak to evolution because they are afraid it disproves God. they speak to homosexuality because they are afraid of homosexuals (much as they were afraid of blacks or the races mixing in our not too distant pass - completely irrational stuff).
so i'm not saying fear is immoral - or that we should be fearlessly amoral - i'm just observing that we don't make rational decisions when we're afraid: we make people take their shoes and belts off in airport and cary tiny shampoo bottles - but were no safer. were no longer being intellectual ... and were quite honestly being pretty irrational and pretty foolish looking... all because were afraid. whereas the rational argument is - look, the rules of the air changed that day - it changed from "appease the hijackers and no one will get hurt" - to, never again will five people be able to bring down an airplane... because the rest of the people on board will never allow that.
so why dont we torture animals? what reason can christianity give us? i recall having no real reason not to while growing up. i didn't torture cats - but i tortured my fair share of frogs. and this being a good baptist boy. so why don't we? the eventual answer my mom gave me was because it leads to additional cruelty. why does it do that? well - why would someone torture another being in general? its more than dehumanizing - its de-sacredness-of-life -ing. its treating another being as a machine - i poke it here - what happens? and my point is - if we look at this issue through the lens of consciousness - particularly our consciousness (and eventually the consciousness of the other) - the damage it causes us by de-sacredness-of-life -ing - we have a reason to not torture even tickle me elmo's.
"the classic christian answer is "because God made us". but my point is - this is answer comes from a theist point of view. how do we have a conversation then with a non-theist who doesn't agree with our assumption? are we at an impasse?
"
Are we at an impasse? I don't know. It depends on the nature of the conversation. Why should it be a problem that the answer comes from a theist point of view, if one is a theist?
I once belonged to a political party, the Liberal Party, whose members were Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, agnostics, atheists and more. They were able to work together to try to achieve certain political objectives that they believed would result in a more moral ordering of society. If you asked them why they held the views on morality they did, you'd get a lot of different answers, but that didn't stop them from working together to achieve them. So at that level there is no impasse.
But I don't think it would be correct to say that fear was at the root of it for any of them, or that they were acting out of cowardice.
Yes, people did sometimes say things like "I fear for the future of our children if our country continues on its present course", but I don't think fear was uppermost in our minds, or the dominant motive.
Steve - i think were saying similar things -
when I asked the question "are we at an impasse?" - my personal answer is "no, we're not" and i went on to describe a way that i believe we can have that conversation (via consciousness) without resorting to "my book says this here..." (and what if you don't have a book).
so when you say you can have an conversation with Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, agnostics, atheists and more... you've achieved what my hope is for Christians (and all people).
and if youre not making decisions with fear as your motivator - then again - you've again achieved what my hope is for Christians (and all people)
so... question to you: how did you have those conversations? (e.g. on what basis? )
How did we have such conversations?
With difficulty.
I've recorded one such conversation in my blog here. Perhaps it was an impasse.
We didn't usually have such conversations though, and mostly talked about practical politics.
Where I agree with something in your original post is that if there are to be such conversations, then one must not make preconditions like "You must accept my presuppositions before we discuss it". But that applies equally to both sides.
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